Q: The last time I interviewed John McLaughlin, I asked him what he thought his musical strengths and weaknesses were. And it was very humbling to hear someone who is as great a player as he is respond that he was frustrated that he couldn't play all the things he could think of. What do you think are your strengths and weaknesses?
CLAPTON: (laughs) I'm probably the opposite to John, in that he can probably think of things he wants to play and can't, and I can't think of anything at all! My playing far outreaches my ability to play what I can think. That's why I could never be a jazz musician, because I can't hear it in my head. I play from somewhere else, where it simply goes to my hands. I've tried a couple of times to sing along while I'm playing and I can't do it. Now and hen, I've been able to, but most of the time I'm severely limited in that respect.
Q: Actually, don't you do a bit of scat-singing in unison with your guitar playing on "So Tired," the opening cut on your new album?
CLAPTON: That just kind of evolved. It's one of the few instances I've done that.
Q: I recall that, in 1995, you did tour of Europe only with a band that teamed you with Joe Sample, David Sanborn, Steve Gadd and, I believe Marcus Miller. I'm curious what the nature of that band's music was, and if anyone was the leader, or if you all met in the middle?
CLAPTON: Well, the person who was the leader was Marcus. It was his vehicle and he was out front; it was like a bass-guitar band, and it was fun. And he doesn't have any problem taking that role. He leads from that area of the rhythm section entirely, and that's what you're going to get. And I knew that going into it, and it was great; we all fit in around that. The only person I thought was a little overshadowed, simply by the nature of his gentility, was Joe Sample, because it was quite a raucous outfit.
Q: Did you do any recording with that group?
CLAPTON: Well, we played at the Montreux Jazz Festival, and they record everything. And I'm sure there are some live bootlegs out there floating around.
Q: When you revisited your Cream days at the Royal Albert Hall in London earlier this year, I'm curious if you were in any way surprised by some of the songs as you came back to them after such a long period?
CLAPTON: Yeah. I mean, I had one song that I did three or four songs into the show, "Outside Woman Blues," which on the strength of listening to it again on record seemed pretty simple and straightforward. And the minute I started to rehearse it, I realized how much more work there was involved in being the Cream guitar player than in my normal outfit. And that was the same for the entire repertoire. Q What spurred the Cream reunion?
CLAPTON: (pause) I think just a sense of well-being in myself. I felt it was time to be a little charitable.
Q: Charitable, in what way?
CLAPTON: In terms of friendship and healing up old wounds. I don't think, well, there was always an element of dissatisfaction with how it fell through (in 1968), and there was always a need to re-address that. We touched on it when we got inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (in 1993). And I knew from that, that it was possible to approach it again, so I thought it was necessary.
Q: Was part of the attraction that it was just a few dates at the Royal Albert Hall, and not a huge tour with massive media attention?
CLAPTON: Yeah, we needed to feel our way along. I think we will do more.
Q: Will there be a U.S. tour?
CLAPTON: I think we'll do some dates in New York this year.
Q: I usually ask veteran musicians if they've done more interviews than they care to recall, but you don't do very many. Then, of course, there's Frank Zappa's classic definition of rock journalism, which went something like: "People who can't talk, being interviewed by people who can't write, for people who can't read.".
CLAPTON: (laughs).
Q: So, how do you find the process of interviews?
CLAPTON: Well, I think some people think it's necessary. I don't know if it is or isn't. I know I like to read interviews (with other musicians) so that shoots out any argument I might have against it. My fear is, I probably do more to undermine my product than anybody else. I think if the record came out and people listened to it, that would be enough. If you hear me talk about it, you won't buy it. I have the knack of not talking about it very well. I'm not that confident that what I'm saying will help. But I love to read what other people say. I'd jump at reading a J.J. Cale interview. The people who don't do this stuff, I'll jump at reading interviews with. So there's a paradox there. I prefer not to do interviews, and I admire the people who don't. But if you give me the chance to read an interview when they do do one, I'll jump at it.
Q: It's funny you mention J.J. Cale. He lives here, very quietly, in northern San Diego County, and when I interviewed him last year I pointed out that it had been 12 years or so since our last interview.
CLAPTON: (laughs).
Q: When I tried to get the check for lunch, he grabbed it and said something like: "I'll get it; Eric Clapton sells a lot of records.".
CLAPTON: (laughs heartily).
Q: Is that part of the appeal for you of recording songs by other people, that the publishing royalties go to them, or to their heirs?
CLAPTON: That's part of the deal for me. It's always been the best thing I can do, to alleviate the fact that I don't really think that highly of my own output, is to know it might help somebody else.
Q: Why don't you think that highly of your work?
CLAPTON: I just don't. I just think I'm OK. The object of most of my work has been to raise it above my standard. And so, you know, I never think I'll be as good as the people I look up to.
Q: Who are some of those people whose standards you aspire to?
CLAPTON: J.J. is pretty close to the ideal focus for that. I like his principles; I think he's a very principled man.
Q: You've said in the past that you think you have an addictive personality, with regards to drugs and alcohol. Is music also addictive for you?
CLAPTON: I think it can fall into the category. If I like something I'll listen to it beyond the point of normalcy. I can listen to an album over and over again the new Robert Cray album hasn't left my CD player in two months, it's a great record so much that I might even wear it out sometimes.
Q: I recall that you played a few songs with Wynton Marsalis some years ago at the Apollo Theater in Harlem, in a benefit concert for Jazz At Lincoln Center, and I'm wondering what songs you did together?
CLAPTON: Yeah, I was a guest at one of his benefits. I did Bessie Smith's "Nobody Knows You When You're Down and Out" and a Louis Armstrong song. Hmm. What was it called?
Q: How was it to play with Wynton and his band?
CLAPTON: It was a little nerve-wracking. I mean, Ray Charles was on the same bill, and he was making mistakes in rehearsals and even during the show, because Wynton comes up with some pretty intricate arrangements. I had to almost ignore the arrangements, and just plow on through. It was great to listen to later (on tape), and he's a lovely man to work with.
Q: Do you anticipate ever doing more collaborations with him?
CLAPTON: I think so. I can see that we get on very well.
Q: I've always found it intriguing and ironic that Europeans have usually been far better informed, and reverent, about American blues and jazz than most Americans. I remember Art Blakey once telling me that, the first time he toured Japan in 1959, he was stunned to find fans there knew more about his career than he did. And Robert Cray told me, after his first tour of Brazil, that he heard more blues and R&B on Brazilian radio than he'd ever heard on any American radio station. Why do you think it is that you and an entire generation of young English people embraced blues in the late 1950s and early 1960s, while Americans had all his great music in their back yard, and ignored? Or at least, they ignored it until bands like the Yardbirds, the Stones and Cream started singing the praises of B.B. King, Robert Johnson and all the other blues greats who were under their noses here in the United States all along?
CLAPTON: I think it's quite fundamental and simple, really. We never recognize things in our own front yard. We had the same thing here, where I would talk to, for instance, Greg Phillinganes (a noted African-American keyboardist and longtime Clapton band member) abut our roots. And he was motivated, not by Ray Charles, but by the Dave Clark Five! And that shocked me to my core. I realized that, in the 60s, even black R&B musicians were in awe of The Beatles, so it goes both ways. We were able, in England, to see the situation in America in a way you couldn't. And we didn't have to deal with civil rights issues and the political situation, which probably overshadowed your communities, because it would bring in too many ambiguous and difficult issues. When I started listening to radio here, everything that was fun and good was from abroad. I didn't like anything being made here Cliff Richard and Billy Fury and Marty Wilde and these people were crap, as far as I was concerned about it. Because they were English, I didn't like them. I liked Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry and Fats Domino. When I first saw a picture of Chuck, I thought he was Cuban or Mexican! I had no idea what the political ramifications were with any of these people. I was just free to hear the music; nothing hinged on politics or social issues, at all. And you had all these great artists, like Muddy and B.B., who you could listen to and learn from.
Q: How did your perspective change after meeting and befriending Muddy?
CLAPTON: It didn't change my appreciation, at all. I've always been a bit cautious about meeting people I admire. Because, if you like a comedian, then when you meet that comedian you feel like you have to say something funny. It's very difficult to strike up a relationship with people I admire, because I want to retain that (awe) and keep them on the pedestal. And the minute it looks like we'll become equals, I feel very confused! (laughs) So, meeting Muddy, I always tried to keep him at a distance and treat him like a father figure, and it's position he felt comfortable with.
Q: How about your relationship with B.B.?
CLAPTON: Well, me and B.B. get on fine and he treats me like an equal, but I don't see it that way. He's like a father figure and uncle. He's this genius artist to me. I can't ever see myself as being in the same league with him.
Q: Out of curiosity, did you ever meet Miles Davis? And if so, do you have a favorite Miles anecdote you'd like to share?
CLAPTON: I only met him once, in the Rome airport. And funnily enough, what he said was pretty funny. He was surrounded by his musicians we were both in transit and I summoned up the courage to talk with him. Because I'd had a very brief liaison with one of his wives, Betty Davis we kind of hung out for a while and I didn't know who she was, or that there was a connection between her and Miles. When he found out, he got pretty upset and said some mean things about me in the press. So, years later, I bumped into him in Rome, and plucked up the courage to talk to him. And he had been sick for a while, so I said: "Miles, it's Eric Clapton. I just wanted to come over and say `Hello,' and that I hope you are feeling better." He said: "What do you mean, `better?' " And I said: "Well, I heard you were sick recently." And he said: "Yeah, I was sick of my band!" He wasn't particularly friendly, so I said: "Nice to meet you," and I backed off.
Q: Speaking of Miles, he gave me the best answer I've ever got to this next question: How would you like to be remembered?
CLAPTON: Oh, god.
Q: How, and for what?
CLAPTON: I suppose just for being a music messenger, just for being a journeyman.
Q: It's interesting you use the word "journeyman," which was also the title of your 1989 album. In this country, the word means a tradesman and isn't very flattering, whereas you mean it as a dedicated craftsman.
CLAPTON: That's our definition of it over here, a workman who travels and puts his hand to as many works as he can.
